[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, this is Snail Desai from Xylem and you're listening to the Water Values Podcast.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: The Water Values Podcast is sponsored by the following market leading companies and organizations by the American Waterworks Association Dedicated to
[00:00:13] Speaker C: the World's Most Important Resource by Black
[00:00:15] Speaker B: and Veatch Building a World of Difference by Advanced Drainage Systems Our Reason is water by 1898 and CO possibilities powered by Experience by Woodard and Curran High Quality Consulting Engineering Science and Operations Services by Entera Innovation and Stewardship for a Sustainable Tomorrow and by Xylem Let's Solve Water.
This is session 292.
[00:00:52] Speaker D: Welcome to the Water Values Podcast. This is the podcast dedicated to water utilities, resources, treatment, reuse and all things water. Now here's your host, Dave McGip.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to another session of the Water Values Podcast. As my daughter Sarah said, my name is Dave McGimcie and thank you for joining me and of course thank you for your support over the last 12 plus years. We have a terrific show for you this month. We've got Stantec's Joey Murphy who's going to enlighten us on the findings of a white paper that Stantec performed in collaboration with Bluefield Research concerning Organizational Change Management.
It's really interesting stuff and important stuff at that. And also we've got Rhys Tisdale back for another Bluefield on Tap segment addressing the US Pipe market. More really interesting stuff coming on Bluefield on Tap. But before we get into today's conversations, we always say thank you to our awesome sponsors at the top of every show and what a fantastic set of sponsors we have in 2026. We've got the American Waterworks Association, Black and Veatch, Advanced Drainage Systems 1898 and Company, Woodard and Curran, Entera and Xylem. And that, my friends, is a terrific collection of impactful companies that have affirmatively decided to support water industry thought leadership and education. And I thank you all and I'd like for you, the listener, to please do me a favor. If you work for or with any of those sponsors, please please thank your boss or thank your contact at the sponsor firm and let them know that you appreciate their leadership in the industry through the sponsorship. You'd be surprised how far that simple little note of thanks will go.
And as long as you're letting the sponsors know you appreciate their support of water industry education and thought leadership, why not leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or whatever other podcast directory you access the podcast on. It'd be greatly appreciated and of course helps others find out about the podcast. And also, please don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Yes, the ever important subscription.
Before we head on to the main interview with Joey, we've got a Bluefield on Tap segment with Bluefield Research's Rhys Tisdale. So take it away, guys.
[00:03:05] Speaker C: Reece, welcome to another Bluefield on Tap. How are we this month?
[00:03:09] Speaker E: We are pretty good. The fall has started. Baseball season's over for both of us. And yeah, actually I miss weftech this week because the weather was so bad that nor' Easter knocked me out and I couldn't get to New Orleans. My flights were canceled.
[00:03:26] Speaker C: Oh, man.
Well, so goes it. So a lot going on and I know Bluefield has released some recent research.
What kind of is on your plate today?
[00:03:40] Speaker E: Yeah. So we just released our annual and I think we're going to start moving towards more even regular update of our US Pipe forecast. So it was pretty interesting to kind of go through this exercise again. Just we did last year, but looking at about $100 billion of pipe expenditures over the next 10 years in the U.S. which is pretty significant. It's a big chunk. It is the largest or maybe even second largest group of spending or category based on capital improvement plans and such.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:20] Speaker C: And so do you have any sense of whether this pipe is for new development or is it for replacement of aging infrastructure?
[00:04:30] Speaker E: So actually, that's actually a really good question and one of the more interesting ones because so just the groundwork is we're looking at about four and a half million miles of water and drinking water and wastewater pipe in the ground in the US up until more recently, really, new build has been a big growth engine for the sector.
But as you can imagine, housing starts have really started to pull that growth down and, and giving or giving way to market share as the total goes towards rehab and rehabilitation. So to put in perspective, I mean, new still represents about half or over half of the market spend total, but the trajectory or growth is just a couple percentage points. It's pretty low compared to rehab and rehabilitation, which has compound annual growth rate of about, you know, 8 to 10%. So rehab and rehabilitation is growing at a faster clip. New development is much slower.
[00:05:39] Speaker C: Interesting.
What about pipes? So I've got a couple of questions. So what about pipe sizes?
Are we seeing more kind of trunk line replacements or is this more replacing pipes in say, residential areas? Or, you know, what, what, what are we seeing? Are we, are you, are you seeing much of a difference there or how does that split work out?
[00:06:06] Speaker E: Yeah. So when you start looking at pipe Sizes, which was, that's another surprising area to me is that we're seeing faster growth as far as say, larger pipe sizes. I mean it's sort of, I think we actually even have some data showcased in our report that says, you know, large diameter transmission, so that we would call that 27 inches and above. It's growing at about 2 1/2% on average over the 10 year versus the smaller diameter pipes. Those sizes are growing at about a one and a half compound annual growth rate.
So we are seeing larger trunk lines and kind of makes.
Also because I'm getting the sense clients are asking more about the larger pipe sizes as well.
[00:06:55] Speaker C: Yeah. And kind of going, I think this is related.
But we all know we've talked about data centers and semiconductors.
How is that growth or how are those developments impacting the pipe market?
[00:07:15] Speaker E: God, it feels like we've talked about this before because this is a question that actually came up within the past two or three weeks from someone who, who had a similar type question. And that was, I think one of the challenges for us. And we've been trying to figure out, you know, where or why are utilities putting a new pipe.
I'm not going to lie. We can't put a finger on exactly why.
You know, is there an inflection because of data centers or semiconductors, because those are sort of hotspot areas. So obviously you're going to see in maybe northern Virginia, you're going to see some activity pipe development around all of those, maybe in parts of Texas.
So we can't really see that. If anything, I would say that we'll be able to get a better idea and maybe this is something if our analysts haven't already done, is just to go through things like state revolving funds or capital improvement plans or even just meeting notes and minutes for towns just to get an idea of why they're doing it. But that's kind of a tough one, quite honestly.
It just like, like I said, and also we've talked about data centers. How many of these are actually really going to be delivered? Right. That's the other question. There's still a lot of uncertainty about the data center pipeline and how much is real versus not.
[00:08:42] Speaker C: Is there any geographic split, like is the pipe market in the Northeast more robust or is it in the Southwest? Or the.
Do you have any, do you have
[00:08:50] Speaker B: any sense of that?
[00:08:51] Speaker C: Did your report hit. Hit on that issue?
[00:08:52] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. So you're, that's a good question. One thing that did jump out so you can imagine the Big states, the Florida's, the Texas is, the California is, the New Yorks of the world, they represent the biggest chunk because that's where most people live and that's where most of the systems are.
The new build you're seeing, even if it's slowing down, it's still happening in the Sun Belt states. So there's a lot of activity. And that's also driving sort of, you could argue, lower cost, lighter materials like pvc. You're seeing more, more of that being deployed in the states because they're being driven by developers.
The rehab and replace, rehab and replacement. You're seeing more of that, the higher share in places like the Northeast. But what was interesting that couple markets in the upper Midwest like Wisconsin jumped out. I think Ontario was a higher growth market. When you look, because we looked at Canada as well, that we were seeing a couple states and provinces, there were higher growth.
For whatever reason, the data was sort of pulling that out to say, hey, there's more sort of growth. Maybe not total size being as big, but growth being faster.
[00:10:05] Speaker C: Interesting, interesting.
So who's, who stands to benefit from the trends in the pipe industry? I mean, what companies are positioned?
[00:10:17] Speaker E: Well, well, I'd say generally speaking, PVC continues to take total market share from ductile iron. Ductile iron on a dollar basis is still growing.
You know, there are three or four companies, whether it be American Pipe, McWane, Forterra, those are a couple examples of ductile iron players. The west lakes of the world, the PVC players are definitely capturing more.
And part of that is because of the growth of new build, because they're delivering in places like Sunbelt, so they're doing better. And then obviously there's all the one thing that is sort of subsequent to this, and we're just about to release it sort of in conjunction with our pipe report, are the manholes, the valves, the hydrants that go along with it, those assets, those are growing similarly as well. So they're definitely going to benefit for any new mile as well as replacement.
Like manhole replacements are pretty high growth wise because they break down particularly in wastewater, so they need to be replaced fairly often.
[00:11:24] Speaker C: Good deal. All right, well, Reese, as always, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and Bluefield's good research. So we'll talk to you again soon. Thanks so much.
[00:11:33] Speaker E: All right, Dave, talk soon. Happy fall.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:11:35] Speaker C: Amen. Bye.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: As always, great information from Bluefield Research and Reece Tisdale. And as with all of the information conveyed on this show, it is for educational informational purposes only. And does not constitute formal financial investment, legal or tax advice.
Now it's time for the main event. Our interview with Joey Murphy on organizational change management.
So let's get that water flowing.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: Well, Joey, welcome to the Water Values podcast. Great to have you on. How are you today?
[00:12:04] Speaker A: I'm doing great.
[00:12:06] Speaker C: Good, good.
We're going to get into a lot of great stuff today, but before we do, I'd love to hear a little about your background and how you came to the water sector.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: I am actually an old utility guy. I spent about 25 years with a public utility in Georgia.
Actually started my career as an electrician.
Worked multiple jobs within the utility and about the last 10 years I was the CFO.
[00:12:37] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: So started, started there and kind of semi retired from the public side and joined stantec as a consultant to help utilities move forward with.
With all of the great things that we're moving forward with.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: Great.
[00:12:54] Speaker C: So can you tell me a little bit about this? You know, what size of utility were you working at in Georgia?
[00:13:00] Speaker A: We were a mid sized utility, about 85,000. Accounts about a population of about 250,000.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:13:09] Speaker C: And I assume it was municipally owned?
[00:13:12] Speaker A: Yes, sir.
[00:13:12] Speaker C: All right. All right.
I'm just curious because I'm very interested how that might, you know, color your view on. On the utility industry generally.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I've seen, definitely seen, especially related to this topic. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly as far as implementations of new programs and how important organizational change management is to that.
[00:13:38] Speaker C: Yeah, so that's a great segue because we are going to talk about organizational change management today and the white paper that stantex produced in partnership with Bluefield Research.
But can you just give us kind of a thumbnail on overall, where did this idea come from?
Why produce a white paper for organizational change management in the utility industry specifically? Yeah, specifically the water utility industry. Pardon me for barging in.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Oh no, no problem at all.
Yeah, it at stantec we were really looking to try and figure out what made the difference between successful deployments and not so successful deployments.
One of the key factors there again is the organizational change management act change management process.
So what we asked Bluefield to help us with was to kind of look at that holistically, kind of across the water utility industry to say who's doing it good, who's not doing it, and kind of what that delta is when it comes to success related to project implementations.
[00:14:51] Speaker C: Got it. Now could you talk about some of the problems that are causing the need for change in the industry, like, what do you see as contributing to the need for organizational change management? What kind of issues are utilities dealing with?
[00:15:10] Speaker A: Well, the water industry, the one thing I can always say is there's always change related to that. And we're kind of under some unprecedented pressures right now, including aging infrastructure, you know, workforce shortages or the retirements that's coming up, you know, the growing population and their request for additional information along with again, everybody's favorite evolving regulatory and operational requirements.
So all of these things put additional pressure on the water utilities to actually solve these problems and to solve them to a point to where it makes a difference.
[00:15:54] Speaker C: Right, right. Yeah. Because I've heard utility directors say, you know, look, we're getting hit with lead and copper rule, you know, lead service lines with all, you know, PFAS is coming down the pike. You know, we've got to find a different way to do this. And it's, it's refreshing to see an organization take on change management like you have.
So can you tell us a little. I'm sorry, go ahead.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, everything you mentioned there, there are change management aspects that have to be incorporated into the utilities daily processes to actually make those successful. So this is kind of a great topic to talk about because again, it applies to so many different avenues and so many different things that utilities are doing.
[00:16:48] Speaker C: Right, Right. So give me what's the framework for organizational change management?
A utility knows it needs to adapt and change.
How do you get the, you know, essentially the buy in so that your utility employees are going along with what the leadership is, the direction the leadership is pointing?
[00:17:09] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: You know, there's a lot of key things when it comes to kind of addressing the change management aspects.
The biggest one again is change is personal. You know, it happens at the individual level that rolls up of course to the organizational level. So you've got to have that buy in from employees that they're trusting you on. Why we're having to make these changes, you know, all of that is to kind of reduce any resistance, resistance that you have in relationship to those changes. And you do that through communication and engagement. You know, those, those are the key items that we've kind of seen through this research and seen through the projects that we do here at stantech to kind of see what success looks like. You know, and the other things is it it especially the part that I enjoy the most is it kind of breaks down the silos between departments.
So again, if you've got a regulatory change that not only is going to affect engineering and their design work. But of course it's going to affect operations as well that change management aspects actually help to kind of bridge those groups for a common goal going, you know, to fix that. And of course it, you know, with change management or with any of these type of methodologies that you use, you know, it's always supporting the workforce development, the succession planning and gaining that operational efficiency and effectiveness that you're looking for.
[00:18:43] Speaker C: Right. So, you know, it's interesting that you talk about community clear communication and all that. So I've, I've had instances where people say, well, management came in and asked our opinion and then they shoved it down our throat anyway after we said we didn't want to do it. So how do you bridge that gap or how do you overcome that obstacle?
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Well, it's very, I hate to say I laughed at that, but one of the things that the research paper actually pointed out was that 89% of the utility directors actually recognized the importance of that employee buy in, but only 32% of them actually had a methodology associated with that to ensure that they get it.
So like you said, the older methodology was, here's the change, make it happen.
Well, with using ocm, short for Organizational Change Management, what you're doing is you're getting that involvement early with the employees to say, here's the problem that we're trying to solve. You guys help us figure out how to solve that problem. Let's come back together, talk about it, let's communicate how we're going to move this forward and then let's, you know, set the measures of success, what does success look like for our organization and then from there monitor that to make sure that we stick. You know, that's the other important thing with OCM is we always come back to make sure that everybody understands that the reason why we made the change is. But then also are they adapting to that change?
We call it the rubber band effect. If you don't come back and measure it, a lot of times people will incorporate the change, but then they just snap right back to their old practices and their old processes to actually perform the work. So again, you want to make sure that it's incorporated and everybody understands the why, you know, the why of what we're doing.
[00:20:47] Speaker C: Right. So there's a couple of important things I think you said there, first off is don't go to the employees with a pre baked solution and try to, you know, get their input after you've already determined what direction you're going. You got to get them involved Early.
[00:21:03] Speaker E: Correct.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: That is one of the key takeaways that we actually found from the report that we put together as well is that getting that employee buy in early, getting it often, and then communicating continuous communication is definitely the key for success.
[00:21:21] Speaker C: Yeah. So could you, do you have an example you might be able to use and how a utility did this? Well, and you know, it could be aging infrastructure, it could be, you know, you know, addressing PFAS issues.
Is there anything, do you have anything come to mind?
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Sure, sure. We've got several great examples that we've got in the white paper, but one of them from a technology standpoint, because again, that's a big driving factor for most utilities now is the advancement that we're having in technology.
The Phoenix water people in Phoenix, Arizona, they were actually replacing their billing system.
And as an old cfo, that scares me to death because it, again, you've got a lot of risk associated with that. You've got a lot of things that can happen that's going to impact your entire population.
So it's one of those, you know, can't fail type things that you have to make sure that you do. Right. Phoenix embraced that and actually incorporated change management into the process early.
So not only did, you know, these teams come together to say, how are we going to replace this system, but what are we going to replace the system with?
Why do we choose that system over another? What benefits does it have?
And then how do we communicate that back out to the, to the rest of our workforce to kind of get that buy in to say, hey, these are the reasons why we're making this change. Not only is it going to make us more efficient and effective, but it's going to help our customer base so that they have this information readily available, you know, at a touch of the mouse for them to see usage or whatever they want to see in relationship to their billing.
[00:23:17] Speaker C: Curious how the problem in Phoenix was identified.
The billing software was identified as a problem. Was that a management decision that the billing software was a problem or was it, did it percolate up from staff?
[00:23:30] Speaker A: I think it was a combination of percolating up from the staff and also there was a sunset on the current system that they were using.
So I don't want to say it was a forced improvement, but I think it had a lot to do with planning for the future. And again, on those type of systems, you're always looking five to 10 years out to make sure that you've got the coverage that you need because they are such a risky application. To actually change.
[00:23:59] Speaker C: Yeah, and that's just a great point. The other thing I thought that you mentioned that was really important is this rubber band effect. That change is hard and people get people love. You know, humans are creatures of habit. And so do you have any ideas or suggestions on how to, you know, break the, break the old habit and instill the new habits in the workforce?
[00:24:23] Speaker E: Sure.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: The biggest thing is, is, you know, when you're, when you're looking at these changes, everybody thinks it's all about training, you know, that once I train you on whatever the new process is or whatever the new software is, you know, that's, that's all we need to do. That's kind of been the, the standard that we've had for years in the industry.
Now we're kind of changing that methodology to say not only do we want to train you on this, but we want to monitor to make sure that you're using the system the way that we, you know, the way that the system is designed to be used. If we find that there's a gap there, you know, where you may have reverted back to using, you know, your old, old methodologies, we want to understand the reasons why, you know, is the system not providing you what you need?
Is it, is it a training issue? Do you need to be, you know, retrained or do we need to have a refresher on, on why we're doing it this way? Just to keep, you know, keep that rubber band stretched out to make sure that we're, we're using, we're using, using the systems or the new processes the way that we intend them to be used.
[00:25:35] Speaker C: Right.
What about breaking. You also mentioned breaking down silos, and that seems fairly intuitive. But, but it's, it's hard to do because sometimes, you know, department heads might have their own little fiefdom and they don't like anyone messing around with their area. So how do you, how do you effectively, what are some strategies to, to break down those side silos and get everybody on the same singing from the same sheet of music?
[00:26:01] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's one of the key things. And I always say it always starts with the middle management, you know, so, so those people that are actually going to be responsible for these changes, so again, your operations directors, your engineering staff, support, you know, those are the people that's going to have to adopt or adapt to these changes that we're requesting.
So getting those people on board, especially because then the rank and file will listen to them more so than, say, the consultant that they're helping with that.
That's the key, the key item, getting the buy in from the department managers and all. Again, we've got to be able to communicate the why, you know, why are we having to make this change? You know, why are we bothering you with this change? What is it, what is it going to do for you? Or why do we need you to change your process to actually incorporate these, these new items?
So again, it all goes back to the communication piece that you've got to over communicate what the needs are and the reason why we're doing this and then get everybody, you know, singing some singing from the same page of the hymnal. As my dad would say, you know, you want to make sure that we're all in tuned with that along with that. You know, if you do have, and not that utilities have people that own fiefdoms, I don't want to say that out loud, but if you do have a fiefdom kind of person, this is where your executive sponsor comes in.
You know, another key position in the change management methodology is kind of having that executive sponsor that's looking at it from the big picture, you know, and we'll be able to explain that to those department managers to kind of help them get on board with whatever these changes are.
[00:27:58] Speaker C: Right, right. So from an organizational change management perspective, how does, how does this white paper stack up versus change management in other industries? I mean, what is unique about the water and wastewater industry that we need a OCM specific to the water and wastewater utilities sector?
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Well, again, you know, we've got these ever changing requirements that we're having to deal with. We've got a lot of potential staff turnover, especially with the Silver tsunami that's you know, either happening now or going to be happening.
So it's really important that you know, this change and this methodology, you know, to where you're adaptable to all of these changes that are coming down, you know, coming down the pipeline from the water industry. It's really important. I wouldn't say we're 100% different than any other, you know, industry out there, but we have our own nuances that we have to maintain.
You know, as far as regulatory compliance goes, as far as public trust goes, all of these things just lend their self to making sure that we, if we approach something that needs change, we need to have the methodology in place to make sure it happens.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: Yeah. And you know, you mentioned the Silver Tsunami and the turnover in the workforce that's going to force much like the Phoenix Water experienced in their billing software. It's going to force change in the workforce. And I'm curious, this may not be a change management issue, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on technology replacing human labor.
Is that something that can help ease the silver tsunami or help with change management even?
[00:29:57] Speaker A: I'll get myself in trouble, but you know, because I am a technology consultant. But I always say that technology is going to augment but will never replace the knowledge, you know, that a 20 year veteran has at operating a facility.
What our job as an industry is, is how do we get that knowledge out of that 20 year employee and into a system or into the process, or into the standard operating procedures? You know, how can we use that knowledge to better ourself for the next generation that's coming to help operate, you know, these facilities, or doing the strategic plan or maintaining, you know, applications, IT applications, All of it is definitely relevant as far as what we're looking at from the water industry perspective.
[00:30:56] Speaker C: Got it.
Now another question is, is the utility industry is, has, has organizations of all different sizes? You know, you got your small rural systems, you have your midsize systems like you were at, and then you have your major metropolitan systems.
Are the lessons learned through this from your study that produced this white paper, are they applicable across all those utility sizes or are there sizes where, you know, the findings might be more applicable than others?
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Well, it's applicable across the entire spectrum of utility sizes because again, OCM is important regardless of your size. It's definitely important as you get larger in the utility because like we mentioned, there's a lot more complexity, there's a lot more departments, there's a lot more coordination between groups that you have to do at that level versus say a smaller utility where, you know, everybody can meet every week.
You can't, you know, you. That's probably not feasible for some of the larger utilities, but the application of the OCM methodology goes across the board.
So again, whatever change you have to make, whether you're a small, medium or large utility, you can apply these, this methodology to make sure you get the success you're looking for.
[00:32:31] Speaker C: Well stated, Joey.
It's been great having you on. You've been phenomenal. I've learned a lot. I always enjoy talking to folks who've been in the water industry and are continuing to do so and contribute to the collective knowledge of the sector.
Do you have a leave behind message you'd like to leave with the listeners?
[00:32:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I sure do.
I think the future challenges facing utilities are not just infrastructure challenges or technology challenges or the regulatory challenges. You know, it really is the people challenges.
So the utilities that succeed over the next decade will be the ones that invest as much in helping their people adopt or adapt to these change as they do in designing the change itself. You know, when people understand the why, you know, and they participate in the process, they take ownership of the outcomes. You know, change stops being something that happens to them and it becomes something that they help create.
You know, my, my big takeaway is change is not a four letter word.
You know, it's something that is going to happen.
So you want to get your people involved as soon as, as soon as you know about it and as often as you can.
[00:33:50] Speaker C: Excellent. That's well spoken words of wisdom.
For those who want to find out more about you, Joey, and your work on this white paper, where can they go to find that information?
[00:34:01] Speaker A: Oh, if you want to know more about the white paper or contact me, you can go to our
[email protected] and the quickest way is just go up to the search box and you can just type in change management white paper and it'll open a blog that we've created that we'll keep updated. And in that blog you can actually contact me. And there's also a little blue box on the side to actually download the white paper. If you'd like to learn more about what these 19 utilities we interviewed with Stantec and Bluefield Research did excellent.
[00:34:41] Speaker C: Well again Joey, thank you so much. You're doing great work and I really appreciate you spending some time with me today. Thanks so much and we'll talk again soon.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: Thank you sir.
[00:34:51] Speaker B: Great, great interview by Joey there on a sneaky important topic. Appreciate you spending some time with me, Joey, and explaining the importance of organizational change management. Well, I'd love to know what you thought about the interview. Please check out the Show Notes page for information links on this episode.
Just Google the Water Values podcast and click the first link that comes up.
That's our landing page on the Bluefield Research website.
Again, Bluefield Research and the Water Values LLC are not affiliates. We just have a joint marketing arrangement. And as part of that, Bluefield Research is nice enough to give us a home on the web.
You can email me at david.mcgimpseydentins.com and you can sign up for the newsletter at that aforementioned landing page as well.
Thank you again for tuning in and I hope you make it a great day. Plus, I want to give a huge thank you to our sponsors. Again, sponsors of the Water Values podcast include the American Waterworks Association, Black and Veatch, Advanced Drainage Systems 1898 Co, Woodard Curran, Entera and Xylem and this show would not be possible without those great companies and industry leaders. And thank you again for listening and for subscribing to the Water Values Podcast. Your support is truly appreciated.
In closing, please remember to keep the core message of the Water Values Podcast in mind as you go about your daily business.
Water is our most valuable resource, so please join me by going out into
[00:36:15] Speaker C: the world and acting like it's.
[00:36:48] Speaker D: You've been listening to the Water Values Podcast. Thank you for spending some of your day with my dad and me.
[00:36:54] Speaker F: Well, thank you for tuning in to the disclaimer. I'm a lawyer licensed in Indiana and Colorado and nothing in this podcast should be taken as providing legal advice or as establishing an attorney client relationship with you or with anyone else. Additionally, nothing in this podcast should be considered a solicitation for professional employment. I'm just a lawyer that finds water issues interesting and that believes greater public education is needed about water issues. And that includes enhancing my own education about water issues because no one knows everything about water.
