Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Josh this is Josh Cantone, Managing Director.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: Of Suez Digital Solutions North America and you're listening to the Water Values Podcast.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: The Water Values Podcast is sponsored by the following market leading companies and organizations by Entera Innovation and Stewardship for a Sustainable Tomorrow by Xylem Let's Solve Water by the American Waterworks Association Dedicated to the World's Most Important Resource by Black and Veatch Building a World of difference by 120 water new rules need New Tools by Suez Digital Solutions Optimizing Water by IDE Water Technologies, your partner in water treatment and sustainable desalination for six decades by Advanced Drainage Systems Our Reason is water by 1898 & Co. Possibilities Powered by Experience and by Woodard and Curran High Quality Consulting, Engineering Science and Operations Services. This is session 273.
Welcome to the Water Values Podcast. This is the podcast dedicated to water.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Utilities, resources, treatment, reuse and all things water.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: Now here's your host, Dave McGipsey.
Hello and welcome to welcome to another session of the Water Values Podcast. As my daughter Sarah said, my name is Dave McKemcy and thank you for joining me and thank you for your support over the last 11 years. Yes, this podcast launched all the way back in March of 2014. So thanks for sticking with me for this decade. Plus one boy, do we have a great show for you today. Jack Clark provides a firsthand look at the water well drilling business. It's a fascinating peek behind the curtain at an aspect of the water industry we don't always see. And Jack does a great job explaining the well drilling profession so get ready for a treat. Also, Reese Tisdale joins us for a Bluefield on Tap segment that discusses the potential sale of Neptune or a figure that's going to make your head spin. So listen on for the details but before we get to today's conversations, we always say thank you to our awesome sponsors at the top of the show and we have fantastic sponsors in 2025.
That sponsorship lineup includes Entera Xylem, the American Waterworks Association, Black & Veatch 120 Water, Suez Digital Solutions, IDE Water Technologies, Advanced Drainage Systems 1898 & Co and Woodard & Curran. What a terrific collection of impactful companies that have affirmatively decided to support water industry thought leadership and education. And I thank you all and I'd like for you, the listener to please do me a favor. If you work for or with any of those sponsors, please thank your boss or thank your contact at the sponsor firm and let them know that you appreciate their leadership in the industry through the sponsorship. You'd be surprised how far that simple little note of thanks will go.
And as long as you're letting the sponsors know that you appreciate their support of water industry education and thought leadership, hey, why not leave a rating interview on Apple Podcasts or whatever other podcast directory you access the podcast on? It'd be greatly appreciated and of course, helps others find out about the podcast. And also, please don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. Well, before we head on to the interview with Jack, we've got a Bluefield on Tap segment with Bluefield Research's Rhys Tisdale. So take it away, guys.
Well, Reese, welcome to another Bluefield on Tap. How you doing today?
[00:03:34] Speaker C: I'm pretty good, Dave. I'm not going to lie. The audience needs to know what goes into these podcasts. There's a lot of back and forth, and this is their second try because of all things, a water main break which seems to have broken my Internet at my house and broken the school bus system, and I've had to deal with all of it. So here we are, round two.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, for those of you wondering about, you know, the school bus, Reese now has a chauffeur's license for driving a bunch of kids to school because the water main break closed off the streets and the school bus couldn't pick the kids up. So Reese gets a gold star today for chauffeuring kids to school.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: All right, well, I can live without.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: I appreciate that.
Besides water main breaks and school buses not being able to get kids to school, what's going on in the water industry? What's risen to the top of your stack this month?
[00:04:29] Speaker C: Actually, that's a good. It's perfect timing. I didn't really think about it. I came in here to talk about Neptune. Neptune Meters, which is owned by Rover Technologies, is apparently on the block. So water meters, water main brakes, they go hand in hand in some cases. And it looks like Roper Technologies is looking for about $4 billion.
It's floated the idea of selling the company and seems to be there a lot of suitors out there that are going to be interested.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: That's fascinating. Do you have any sense of kind of what supports a $4 billion valuation?
[00:05:08] Speaker C: Well, for one, Neptune is one of the largest metering companies per market share in the U.S. if not the globe. So I think globally it's about 13 to 15% market share. So I think Robo Technologies is about a $7 billion company today. I think our last report that we put out, I believe it was last year. I think Neptune made up about it was. I think in today's dollar today it's probably about a 600 to $700 million company. So it's pretty significant within the metering space itself. So I think that's a big deal. I think it also represents a big opportunity for private equity firms, but also potentially strategics that don't have a meter, a platform from which to build. And so think that's what's drawn a lot of interest.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah. So last time we talked about Eversource divesting Aquarium, it seems that we're in kind of, there's, there's two radically different approaches here because Aquarium was kind of taking a loss. Right. And a $4 billion valuation for Neptune seems to be going in the other direction. So can you kind of compare and contrast those?
[00:06:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I think a couple things. One, eversource, it had other issues that it was dealing with, whether it be offshore wind investments or positions. And it needed sort of clean things up, get back to its core business. It had owned aquarium water since 2017 and I think it was just, it just ultimately wasn't a great fit for the company. And they were also facing a lot of regulatory pushback in Connecticut, its largest market, and probably gave it a little bit of a headache along the way. As far as Neptune goes, it's supply chain. But I think it's also important to look at, you know, things like non revenue water and you know, and you know, the condition of aging infrastructure. Meters actually provide a really, can provide a really important component to understanding what's happening. And it really is the interface between the customer and the utility. So it can be used to understand pressures and what's happening with leakage and leakage rates as well as billing. So I think when you look at that, as well as when you look at spending or expenditures on digital water capital equipment meters make up the biggest chunk of that, 40 to 50% at least in the U.S. so I think that's why there would be a big valuation. And also I think Neptune has been doing really well. So Roper's probably saying to themselves, hey, we're leaning more towards software anyways in our other businesses and we can sell at the high point and maybe really make something of this. They've only owned it since 2003, which time they bought it for 475 million if I'm correct. So if they sell it for 4 billion, then I'd say that's a pretty good return.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you have any sense of the timeline that, that they might be divesting.
[00:08:21] Speaker C: Or selling off Neptune, I haven't seen anything specific. But the fact that they've put it out there means, and I can just tell you just from the questions we're getting from the market as a whole, there's a lot of interest and I think they're just going through the process. It's no guarantee that it's going to be sold. Maybe they kind of get the answer or get the answer that they're not looking for and decide, you know, what we're actually doing pretty well. We can sit on this, it's growing, it's, I think we estimated 12% a year.
So they may be comfortable with that. So we'll see.
You never know these days. But what it would mean though is it would be a big deal for the water sector. You don't see a lot of $4 billion deals, particularly for a water, what you could call in this case a pure play water business. So I look forward to seeing how this unfolds.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: Excellent.
So, so that's that. I very much look forward to seeing how the Neptune deal unfolds. If it does end up going on on the block.
We got a little extra time. Anything else kind of on your radar here that, that we ought to, we ought to know about in the water sector?
[00:09:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I think we were talking a little bit about this beforehand. I think one thing that did catch my eye that is sort of, you know, more broadly speaking, it looks like the USGS put out its report on water across the US from 2010 to 2020 and it seems like total water withdrawals have decreased significantly and largely because of 40% drop in thermo electric power withdrawals. Now what we're seeing is decommissioning of coal plants, more efficient gas fired plants as they're being built out, the transition towards renewables. So water demand in the U.S. you know, actually has been going down despite all of the concerns and issues. That doesn't mean that there aren't hotspots of difficulty, whether it be in the US Southwest, where there's also a lot of agriculture. Agriculture has not fallen 40% just for the record. It's actually, you know, it's been efficient but declining marginally at best.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Okay, interesting stuff. So we look forward to hearing more about that in the future. And good catch on the USGS stuff. So thanks for your time Reece, and we'll talk to you soon.
[00:10:48] Speaker C: Yeah, 100% hope give people the heads up and that it's out there and we can always talk about it again. So thanks again and thanks for being flexible on doing another recording with me.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: Yeah, no sweat, no sweat. Anything to bring this type of valuable insights to the listener. That's, that's what we're here for. All right, thank you.
[00:11:10] Speaker C: And it's cool. All right, talk soon.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: Go ahead.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: No, go ahead.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: What do you got?
[00:11:14] Speaker C: I was gonna say and to. And get the kids to school.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Amen. All right, take care, Reese. We'll talk to you soon.
[00:11:21] Speaker C: See ya.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: Bye.
As always, great information from Bluefield Research and Reese Tisdale. Now it's time for the main event, our interview with Jack Clark. So let's get that water flowing.
Well, Jack, welcome to the Water Values podcast. Great to have you on. How you doing today?
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Good. Thanks for having me, Dave.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Absolutely. Love, love the opportunity to speak with you. Can you tell those who may not be familiar with, with you and your work how you came to the water sector to begin with and what, you know, what you're doing? I'm sorry.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah, so I mean I was just a ranch kid, grew up in a town, 1800 people. And my neighbor growing up was actually in the water well industry and was a big mentor for me and how to get involved with it, with the water well industry. And I, I started that about 10 years ago, highly dyslexic kid. And so college wasn't for me and so I approached Ray and kind of got my start in, in the water well industry with him and you know, worked through all the licensing and the, and the government stuff and got got going and we've been, we've been working at the water well industry now for about 10 years and, and this year we, we finally came live with a franchise model for the pump servicing side of things.
And so that's kind of where we're at now. We have eight locations opened across Montana and a really solid training program and just a really nice consistent product that's starting to kind of roll out more nationwide stuff and hoping to kind of fill the gap in the water well history a little bit with that.
[00:12:54] Speaker A: Awesome. I'm sorry, go ahead. I didn't mean to catch off.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah, so we just rebranded that as 180 water franchises, so.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: All right, cool. So you, you talked about all the government stuff. What, what, what does it take to get into the water well drilling? But what kind of licenses at least does Montana require?
[00:13:12] Speaker B: Yeah, so Montana is a one year finishing, which is interesting because you have to basically go to somebody that you're going to be competing against and, and Tell them that, you know, hey, hire me on, I want to get my license, I want to do my own thing and I want to be your competitive competitor. And so it's, it's a, it's a kind of a niche thing. It's hard to get into, it's hard to find somebody that's willing to take that kind of, you know, chance on somebody. And, and really there's no long term benefit for them.
And so that's kind of how we ended up in the franchise world is we were approached by a lot of different people that asked us to help them get into the water well industry. And there was really no good way to do that. You know, I mean, as a driller they need to be, you know, a welder, a truck driver, a mechanic, a hydrologist, a geologist and all of those things that we built into to this person that wants to be a water well driller. And so it's a really kind of jumbled up mess of skills that is really no sweet recipe to be like this guy's going to be an awesome driller. And so that's kind of how we fell into the franchise world is like how do we make this recreatable, trainable and lower that barrier to entry? Like it's hard to start a water well company. You know, I mean the equipment's expensive, the learning curve's expensive. How do we make it easier, easily accessible for other people? And how do you get started? And so that's what 180 kind of has done is we got started in the pump industry and it allows us to kind of have that more in equation.
The pumps are much more controllable in terms of what the problems are. I mean there's four major parts in pump systems and we built flowcharts and things to diagnose pumps.
And then we have a really nice training program we put together. It's two weeks here and a lot of online training and things too. But we've been able to kind of recreate what we're doing here as our old company, Western Water Wells and be able to put service trucks on the road to help, you know, everybody keep their water running. So.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Excellent. So is that regime that, that Montana has, is that kind of common among states in terms of licensure and, and getting started?
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's very common. I mean the water well industry, I mean 85% of its family owned and is very niche. And so it's a, it's a common theme that you know, basically, you know, your dad was a water well driller, your grandpa was a water well driller. That's how you got your start. And so it's a multi generational companies typically. And so, so that, that works for a multi generational company that you know, we could apprentice with grandpa and then we can get our own rig and then go on that way and the company moves forward. And so it's very common in the water well industry to be able to do it the apprenticeship side of things like that. But it's not really, it's not really a scalable kind of thing. I mean you're not going to find a large company in the water well industry. I mean it's a $10 billion market and nobody owns more than 5% of it. And so a lot of these, well, 85% of these companies are all family owned and know have an average of like 12 employees and so all very pretty small companies. Nobody's really been able to kind of scale that up and, and have that kind of consistency across the industry that we're kind of hoping to accomplish with 180.
[00:16:32] Speaker A: Wow. So it, it sounds like there's a big market opportunity you're going after.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: Yeah, unfortunately we're, we're pretty behind on the training side of things in terms of the industry.
A lot of the industry is, well, 46% of the industry is at or near retirement age of 55. And so it really we're kind of behind the curb a little bit. We've been very fortunate to find some great partners across the industry. Like we have some guys in Georgia, Darrell's down there, that's helping us, you know, get into that kind of south southeast corner and because, well, works a little bit different everywhere. And so we're using these guys that are retiring and want to pass on their knowledge to help put that into our system and our training to kind of make sure that, you know, everything is done top notch, you know, and the customer has the best service and the best quality work possible. And so we're using these guys that want to pass on their knowledge and have maybe been in the industry and have maybe worked at a multi generational company but they don't have their kids coming back or it's not going to be passed along. So they're kind of using 180 as a platform to kind of give back to the industry, which has been really cool. We're really appreciative of that and it was kind of a surprise. I mean when you kind of step into these markets like this, I Mean, I come from the ag background, and it's very similar in terms of we have to preserve the family ranch. And I mean, that's how I was raised. And, and that's kind of my background on that. And I'd say the water well industry has a similar background of man that's different, and that's not the way grandpa did it. And so that must be wrong, you know, and. And so it's. It's nice to kind of walk a little bit on eggshells in terms of coming to the industry, staying curious, staying humble, and just continuing to learn and then applying that to everything else that we have going on. And it's, you know, as a water well guy that's just running, you know, 10 employees or something like that, I mean, you'll see little oddball stuff, like maybe a pressure switch that goes bad, and. And then you see another one six months later that's the same, you know, $20 part went bad. And, you know, you don't really think much of it because you only got $40 into that. But as you kind of start to grow out your training program, you start to see those consistent problems, and then you start to scale that up with maybe a hundred locations. Well, now we're seeing, you know, 200 of those pressure switches a year. And so now it's, you know, advantageous for us to take the time to really be able to diagnose that problem and say, okay, this is how we protect that. This is how we change that so this doesn't happen and really start to tie the whole system together. So now we're getting this really longevity out of these systems and really just being able to have these systems run as efficient as possible. And, and with that, I mean, it just makes the drinking water safer and more consistent. And, and just overall, I think it's just a positive thing. And, and I think that's what's kind of attracting these guys, the 180, in terms of, you know, the guys that might be stepping out of the industry, is that they could really make a big difference here. I mean, that trick that they had in the back of their mind, that was like, man, this is awesome. And all my guys are doing it this way, and that's why I'm better than my competition. And then to plug that into 180 and really see it take off across the nation is just really cool. You know, I mean, the way that we tape our pipes, the way we hang our wire to the way we wire our pumps is all consistent, you know, and, and all those things were taught to me by a great mentor of mine, Jeff. He's still one of our trainers here today. 30 years experience and you just don't get that experience until you start to kind of service your, your pumps and the work that you put in the ground 10 years ago or 15 years ago that now you're going back and putting a new pump in because, you know, the life of a, of a water well pump is only 15 years. So he's going back and he's servicing, servicing the pumps that he put in and that he gets to see how that tape reacted after 15 years of being in the ground or that brass collar instead of a stainless steel collar. And so it just starts to collect a lot of data and really makes us be, you know, what we think is kind of the premier product in the market is kind of what we're shooting for. And then to just tie all that stuff into a beautiful training program with guys that are super motivated because these are their own companies. I mean, each one of these franchise guys is independently owned and operated. And so it's their own, it's their own business, you know, and so, so they're extremely motivated to make sure that they're doing that product consistently because it'll probably be their kids that are pulling the pumps out and servicing them. And so it just really builds on itself, you know. And so it's been really exciting here at 180 to kind of get all that stuff kicked off and just watch it kind of build and snowball. And we kind of thought it would, but not really to this scale. I mean, we've had probably close to 400 applicants for these franchise locations already. We tried to keep them all kind of close. We just kind of figured in our training program that we would miss something.
Not necessarily anything big, but something small like in terms of, you know, hey, you know, don't use a bushing, use a belt. And this is why, or, or maybe, you know, little things that we would overlook by being in the industry for so long. But so far, knock on wood, we've had a really consistent product and these guys have really been able to roll out and just absolutely crush it. I mean, they're doing well. I mean, our guy down in Billings, Montana got a 17th, five star Google review the other day and he's only been operating for, for 90 days. I mean, these guys are just going out and just stepping it up, you know, and, and I think that, I think that the competitiveness of them is really good for the industry. Too. I mean, we all get pretty comfortable in the water well industry. I feel like in terms of competition, like it's been the same guys for generations. You know, blah blah blah's grandpa competed with blah blah blah's grandpa and that's kind of the way it was. And there was really no new blood in the industry. And so I feel like it's going to bring up all the boats in the sea. And that's kind of the goal is to make sure that, you know, everybody's doing quality work and have quality customer service. And I think it's going to be good as a whole, you know.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you said a lot in there.
The first thing was the aging out of the existing workforce. And I think that's a common theme that you find in the water industry. And there's a lot of people out there that are worried about the next gen, you know, workforce. So what.
[00:22:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:53] Speaker A: What have you seen or what has been successful for 180 water in attracting people to the industry?
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Well, I mean, right. Like that was a kind of our fear is like all of everything that we were working on prior to this because it took me three years to get this franchise launched. So I had three years of work before I could even talk to anybody about buying a franchise. And so that was one of the big concerns when we started was like, how do we get quality people? You know, and what we're finding is quality people follow quality opportunities. And that's been really good for 180, that we have a really great opportunity for these guys. I mean, our startup cost is only $250,000. And each one of these trucks can bill anywhere from 600 to 1.2 million. And so with that, with that quality of being able to just roll out and have a great opportunity in front of them, those people are finding us, you know, and so, so I think that that's a great recipe for 180 to really be successful. And then I think giving the people the opportunity to, to really kind of be able to take the reins and run with it. Like even at my current business that we ran prior to 180 Western water wells, we went to a, a commission based salary. So each one of them got paid hourly. But then they also had 2% of gross sales commission. And that was, I read that in Good to Great was the book that I found that in. And we apply that to Western because if you're out there and you're, you know, slamming pumps in the ground maybe, right. And you miss a step well, that's going to affect your bottom line now. So it gives us that side to side accountability that we kind of look for.
And that's, you know, obviously crossed over into 180 with a much higher level when it's their own company, but even on an employee basis of putting them on commission, where if they have to go back and fix a leak on a pressure tank, it costs them money, it ties them in and gives us that, that side to side accountability that I think is so important. I mean, they're physically invested in each job that they do to make sure that it's the highest quality possible so they don't have to go back for 15 years, you know, and, and I think that that's been a good step for us, you know.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Got it. So very good. I love the entrepreneurial spirit. I love having your guys have skin in the game. So that those are, those are great incentives for people to get in.
Let's talk a little just about wells themselves. Like, so when you look for a well site, what are kind of the first things you're going to want to understand or need to know in order to look for a well site that you think is going to be fruitful or have a good yield?
[00:25:40] Speaker B: Yeah, and obviously the first thing you got to look for is safety. I mean, you got to call your 811s, you got to do your digs before you. Before you drill too, just like an excavator or something like that. And then, I mean, we're a little old school here. Montana is kind of an interesting place where we drill here. I mean, it's not like we have a giant aquifer like a lot of places. I mean, a lot of us, what we're doing is looking for a crack in the rock in the mountains. And so, so what we do is we actually witch all our water wells. And what we do is we find, we find a vein of water and then we follow that vein and where it crosses is where we like to drill the well. I mean, it's just kind of a common sense deal there. I mean, two veins, one hole. Got to up your odds, right? So. So that's kind of how we like to find them. I mean, obviously there's a lot of regulation and stuff that says we have to put a well where it needs to go. We. A lot of our subdivisions are DEQ plotted and so that's, that's where the well has to go. And unfortunately, sometimes, you know, you might end up with a little bit deeper hole than, than we were anticipating or something like that, because it has to be in that spot. You know, in terms of the long terms of finding a well location, I mean we, to be able to service a water well, I mean our trucks are about 21ft long and they need to be able to back basically right into it. So in terms of structures and layouts of your property, it's, it's a good idea to make sure that you could back a long box, one ton pickup into your water well if you needed to, then that allow us to service it or rework it if we need to.
Because I think the longevity of wells is going to be, I think the reworking and recouping of water wells is going to be more important. And so sometimes you do some air development or some things like that to kind of prolong the life of the water well. So it's always a good idea to make sure that you, you got some room there so we can service it and make sure that, you know, we can get as much life as an investment as possible. So.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Got it. So it sounds like that, that it sounds more like a, a individual lot or individual residential wells that you are focusing on right now.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yep, for sure. You know, we're primarily residential here in Montana.
I mean, we're starting to get more into the communal water side of things, which are, you know, DEQ projects with 72 hour flow tests and, and you know, monitoring other water wells and, and some drawdown things and making sure that the aquifer can sustain the pumping level that we're after. Um, but there's not a whole lot of that here. I mean, a lot of our irrigation isn't based on wells. A lot of it's based on surface water which, you know, like Idaho and, and some of those other places are, are much more, you know, drilled wells and then they're running their irrigation on there. There's some of that in southwest Montana, but a lot of it, like near where we're at is, is residential and livestock wells. I mean most of our stuff is under 35 gallons a minute. So nothing crazy on yields or anything like that.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Got it, got it. So when you do look at a more of a commercial or utility scale well field, I imagine hydrology or hydrogeology is going to be a big factor. But you know, there's maps out there to let you know where the aquifers are. So you can probably kind of figure that out in terms of screening and things like that. You know, I've, I know enough to be dangerous in terms of when you drill the well, you'd rather have large gravel rather than fine silt or sand, just because it helps. But can you explain a little about how you figure that out and what kind of pumping you do to test the well and things like that?
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So with the screen slot size is all, I mean, so you do a sieve test on it like that, then you could figure out your granular size and then you can size your screen for that.
And so that's a very common practice to be able to sit that and make sure you have the proper slot size. And then like, what we do with our dual rotary rig is, you know, we'll set that screen on bottom and then we'll attract that casing and open up a larger area to be able to get more yield out of the well. And a lot of our DEQ projects are done that way. But, you know, when you're doing those projects, you always have an engineer on site and they've already designed the well and you know, the hydrologists have already kind of picked the depth. And so it's a lot, it's a lot more structured than typically. And then, you know, like at 180, we always don't recommend pumping more than 80, 80% of what a, an air test will do. So like if we air develop out those screens at 100 gallons a minute, I mean, we try to never pump more than 80% of that. And that's just mostly for the longevity of the well, because if we over pump that, what you find is it starts to pull in all those small sediments and it can start to decrease your water.
And so all those little fines start to come to those screens and start to pack some stuff off. And so you want your large particles closest to your screens and then your smaller particles farther back. And so as you pump it does the opposite. It'll bring that small stuff in if you over pump it. So by pumping at 80%, we've had good success of making sure that those wells don't, you know, selled off, I guess, is probably how you call it. Or those fines start to come in.
That's, that's kind of our protocol here. So.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: Well, that, that's, that's, that's real interesting. So can you talk a little about, you know, you said you back the truck up and all this. What's involved in mobilizing beyond, you know, including high level permitting? Because again, permitting is going to be different for every, every jurisdiction. So what's, what are the basics for getting, getting mobilized, getting Mobilized.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: You know, in terms of the pump side of things, typically we can do an emergency permit for most, most roads because we, because people are typically out of water and so we have to service them. And we might go in with a lighter truck and make sure that we do need a big polling unit in terms of mobilization and stuff. I mean, it's just a lot of permits. We work closely with the DOT here in Montana. Just make sure that, you know, everybody's as safe as possible and stuff.
You know, weight limits and stuff typically lift for us and you know, early summer, late spring, which kind of allow us to roll into some of those other areas. But in those early times, we're typically, you know, sometimes we can get permits for it, sometimes we just can't. We have to wait until those load limits are lifted.
[00:32:11] Speaker C: So.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: So it all depends. Yeah, kind of a roundabout, but it's, it's kind of out of our hands on that kind of deal. But you know, we just rely on, on the DOT to make sure that we stay safe.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: So that brings up another question for me. You mentioned, you know, getting essentially approval to go on the roads. What are some other common impediments that you, you encounter when, when drilling wells?
[00:32:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd say spring breakups, probably our toughest time of year.
You know, once it freezes, we can kind of roll on top of the frost. I mean, it kind of makes a, a good paddle and so it gives us some, the ground, some firm firmness to it that allows us to try to basically drive on top of the ice, on top of the ground. But when that starts to break up in the spring is, is when you'll see that the drilling manager, you know, have 20 or 30 wells all scheduled for Monday because he doesn't know what one he can get into. And, and they're usually running ragged to make sure we can get into places because as soon as that frost starts to kind of leave, it starts to be a little bit unpredictable, you know, and then we're basing it on, hey, let's, let's Hope we get 20 degree weather in the morning so everything kind of freezes and then we can get into that location, stand up, drill that well, then we'll, we'll go grab that rig at five in the morning and get it out of there and onto the next one. And so, so spring is, is kind of, kind of a challenging time of year for us, I would say. And, and in terms of being able to get the heavy equipment in and out, it just makes a Little bit unpredictable. And. And.
And I'd say that's probably the toughest part to be able to have. I mean, everything else. I mean, there's some times that there's just too much snow, and it's not. It's not worth the risk of going out and drilling. But a lot of the time that we can usually get in, and then if the weather's below 20 degrees, we typically don't drill. It's just too hard on the equipment and guys and everything. But we like to push the envelope a little bit here, and, you know, it's kind of fun. It's kind of like that overtime, you know, in the football games that, like, you're out there and you're getting it done, and you understand that you're getting it done, and it's pretty exciting. So.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. So what about groundwater depletion? Because we've. We've all heard stories of depleted groundwater causing wells to go dry. What. What do you see as kind of the impacts of groundwater depletion? And. And have you run into that?
[00:34:34] Speaker B: Yeah, so, I mean, we ran into it a little bit. I mean, we're pretty fortunate out here to have pretty consistent groundwater. And, you know, our regulatory.
All of our subdivisions and when we do a lot of wells into an area like that are all approved by the deq, and so they do a hydrological study on them. And so I think a lot of it comes down to just making sure that we follow the proper steps. I know that, you know, as a developer, I've been on that side of it, too, and I know that they can be kind of strenuous in terms of getting through all the hoops, and it seems like it'll never end. But. But I think that they're, you know, within a certain degree necessary. And I think that by relying on them and. And. And really, you know, trying to develop appropriately, it seems like we've had. We've had really good luck here in Montana. And. And it's kind of made. Made it a little bit more streamlined in terms of that. I mean, we'll go out and we'll drill some test wells, and we'll monitor that groundwater for six months or a year.
And so. So that's. That's been good. And without the irrigation side of it, we're not. All of our water is pretty much, you know, brought up, ran across the house, and then put back into the ground at the septic. So a lot of what we're doing isn't necessarily leaving the site. And I think that, that helps a lot too in terms of making sure that our offers don't completely deplete, you know.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: So yeah, you're the original water reuse system.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: We are, yeah.
[00:35:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: So typical household stuff, you know, so.
[00:36:02] Speaker A: Amen. Well, hey, Jet, you've been awesome today. I've learned, I've learned a tremendous amount about well drilling and just, you know, the model you've put together I think is very innovative. Can you. Do you have like a leave behind message that you'd like to leave the listeners with?
[00:36:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, kind of our goal and passion is the, you know, educate people and make them curious about the water well industry. So I mean, I invite anybody to check out our website. I mean, it's just 180 waterfranchises.com I mean, we're here for the long run and we're here to hopefully move this industry forward and with lots of help from a lot of great people that are already in the industry. But if you're curious about it, feel free to reach out, check out our website. I mean we do a lot of TikTok stuff that's kind of silly and fun, but it gets the point across. And that's kind of the point of this is that kind of take a step back and let them know that yeah, it's blue collar work, but it can be pretty cool and it's pretty fun and we're out there in the weather but we make light of it and really to build a team that likes to work together and work closely together is pretty a neat deal and I hope that other people can accomplish that within our franchise model.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Cool. Well, Jack, again, thanks so much. For those who want to find out more about you and more about 180 water. Is that 180waterfranchises.com the best place or are there other.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: Yep, you can jump on there. You can schedule a zoom call directly with me if you'd like to. If you want to learn more about the water industry and more about 180 and the franchise opportunities, just go on there, fill out our form and we'll be in contact with you within 24 hours.
We're workers over here, so I love it.
[00:37:41] Speaker A: All right, Jack, thanks so much. Really appreciate your time and we'll talk to you again soon.
[00:37:46] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks, David. Appreciate it.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: You bet. Bye. What a terrific interview. Jack was fantastic talking about the intricacies of water well drilling, a lot of practical aspects and he's got a very unique business model as well that hopes to support water well drillers by the franchise model. So very innovative, Jack. So thanks very much for your time. Really appreciated the opportunity to speak with you.
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