Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, this is Jeff Keitlinger, the former.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: General Manager of the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California. And you're listening to the Water Values Podcast. The Water Values Podcast is sponsored by the following market leading companies and organizations by Advanced Drainage Systems Our Reason is water by 1898 & Co. Possibilities Powered by Experience by Woodard and Curran High Quality Consulting, Engineering Science and Operations Services by Innovation and Stewardship for a Sustainable Tomorrow by Xylem Let's Solve Water by the American Waterworks Association Dedicated to the World's Most Important Resource by Black and Veatch Building a World of difference and by 120 water. New rules need new tools. This is session 270.
Welcome to the Water Values Podcast. This is the podcast dedicated to water utilities, resources, treatment, reuse and all things water. Now here's your host, Dave McGimsey.
Hello and welcome to another session of the Water Values Podcast. As my daughter Sarah said, my name is Dave McGimpsey and thank you for joining me and thank you for your support over the last 10 plus years. And a very happy holiday to you all. However you celebrate, I hope you do it well and find a little joy this holiday season. It's easy to lose sight of things this time of year with the end of year crunch, and I'm as guilty as anyone of falling victim to that. So take a little time for yourself and enjoy the holidays. And I hope you have a wonderful holiday and a happy new year. Well, this is the Year in Water episode rather than a panel discussion this year I thought it'd be fun to have Reese Tisdale of Bluefield research on to discuss what happened in water in 2024. And Rhys thought it'd be even more fun to critique his predictions from the beginning of 2024 against what actually transpired during the year. And Reece does a phenomenal job as always, breaking down what happened in 2024 in the water sector. And he offers his insights on what 2025 might hold for the water sector.
But before we get to that, a few announcements. First, as announced in our last episode for 2025, my schedule is causing me to drop down to just one episode per month, which will be released the first Tuesday of every month. Again, I just want to make sure that you're prepared for that new cadence of releases. And on the third Tuesday of the month, you don't find yourself saying, why didn't Dave issue a new episode Next? We always say thank you to our awesome sponsors at the top of every show, and we have fantastic sponsors for 2024. And our sponsorship lineup includes Advanced Drainage Systems, 1898 and Company, Woodard and Curran, Interra Xylem, the American Waterworks Association, Black and veatch, and 120 water. And that, as I'm sure you are all aware, is a terrific collection of impactful companies that have decided to support water industry thought leadership and education. And I thank you all and I'd like for you to do me a favor. If you work for or with any of those sponsors, please thank your boss or thank your contact at the sponsor firm and let them know that you appreciate their leadership in the industry through the sponsorship.
You would be really surprised how far that little note of thanks will go.
And hey, as long as you're letting sponsors know that you appreciate their support of water industry, education, thought leadership, why not leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or whatever other podcast directory you're accessing the podcast on. Be greatly appreciated this holiday season and of course, helps others find out about the podcast. And also, please don't forget to subscribe to the podcast.
Well, now it's time for the main event, the interview with Reese Tisdale for the Year on Water episode. So let's get that water flowing.
Well, Reese, welcome to a full session of the Water Values podcast. Great to have you on. We're kind of doing a bluefield on tap on steroids for this episode, a kind of A Year in Water recap of what, what you saw as. As happening in water. So, but I should start off before I get too deep into this. How you been? How you doing?
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Things are good. And so I'm, you know, when it comes to this. So you reached out to me saying, hey, we should do a long episode. And I couldn't remember when the last one I did, but I did was able to go back. It took a while. So you're on. This is episode what, 279? Is that right?
[00:04:33] Speaker B: This is going to be episode 270.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: 270. All right, so we're 270. And the last, the first episode I did was a full episode and that was in July 2016 and that was number 88. So I don't know what took you so long to get me for number 88, more guests. But also since then it's been, you know, but I've been on other panels and such, so happy to be here. And yeah, to round out the year, it's great.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: I hope you're having a good holiday season. And so let's kind of frame this up so I know at the beginning of the year, you kind of put forth your prognostication on what Bluefield research saw as coming out or what the big water issues were going to be in 2024.
So let's, I think you kind of, when we were talking about how this episode might come together, you kind of said, look, I want to give myself a grade on how I did. Just kind of go back and check it out. So could you, could you run through what you thought were going to be the big issues for 2024 and kind of let's, and let's start it, you know, let's, let's have the kind of the list first and then we can attack each, each list individually, each topic individually. So kind of run through what you guys thought were the big things for water in 24. At the beginning of 24?
[00:05:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So at the beginning of the year and we do this every year and in various forms. So for 2024, it was January. We said, okay, what's in and what's out for water in 2024? So in brief and for the sake of time, first one was water will be a key part of climate discussion around resiliency, stormwater and alternative water supplies. Pretty high level, but you know, nonetheless, we thought there was going to be a lot of discussion there. The other was Forever Chemicals. So that was for drinking water, lesser for biosolids. But also we did talk, I'm combining two, it's Forever chemicals in the US as well as in Europe as well. So we had another point on Europe.
A third one was digital water technologies, specifically how those are impacting consumers and doing things for things like real time water management, leakage management and such, and then industrial water, from semiconductors to food and beverage, we're going to see a lot of growth in that space. Those were what I did as a combined two, the pfas or Forever Chemicals one into. Into one. So those are four key takeaways we laid out at the beginning of the year.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: All right, well, let's dive in. Takeaway number one was water is going to be a key part of the climate discussion. Kind of.
How did that issue play out in 24 and how do you think you, you came in? What kind of grade would you assign yourself?
[00:07:23] Speaker A: So I would say, well, I'd give my, give myself a grade of a C plus. Been a little hard from the. Because it's pretty easy, right? I mean it's pretty obvious. But I also don't think that people, when there are these disasters, whether it be Hurricane Helene in Asheville, North Carolina, or the hurricanes on the Gulf coast or the floods in Valencia, Spain, they don't necessarily think of those as a water problem. They just think of it as, as a disaster.
That being said, water is a big part of, I mean, that's sort of creating a lot of the damage. But we are seeing activity in that market and we have seen it for some time. So I mean, the implications are, I mean, there is a reality that stormwater management, according to Bluefield, we did put out a report on stormwater management this year and we sized the market at about 360 plus billion dollars according to our numbers. That's everything for transportation, real estate as well as municipal. So yeah, I think that's, I think maybe my grade is more out of my own frustration that cities and people aren't seeing the long term implications of the climate impacts and what it means for the water sector. If anything, others have said it before, we're moving more into a, we're not going to be able to deal with the temperature shifts and the climate. Well, we're going to have to start adapting. And I think that's really, maybe that's what our storm water report says. A lot of money is just going to have to come into managing all of this water.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it, you know, I think you're right. I think people look at the, like you mentioned Hurricane Helene. They look at that as, that's damage. It's not a water issue. But think about the stormwater damage that was done to i40 and the disruption that, how that just ripples through the, through the economy with the supply chain. Because i40 was a major route for the supply chain and that, I mean, if you looked at the maps, trucks were having to go way up into Virginia and come back down into North Carolina to get around the i40 issue.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I mean, as people know, I'm from Charleston, South Carolina and I'm there often and my brother and I have been dealing with some things with our family in Charleston. He lives in East Tennessee. He can't drive to Charleston. You know, it'll take eight to 10 hours because he's going to have to go a long roundabout way. So now he has to fly what would otherwise. Otherwise be a short trip. You're exactly right. Things like that are significant. And I don't want to overlook, you know, I'm not overlooking like what's happening with the Colorado river and drought and water supplies in the West. I mean, if anything, people do think more about water. In that case because they may be running out. But I think there's. The other side of it is. Which gets overlooked, particularly when you look east. So there's too much water is also a problem.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, you know, you mentioned $360 billion is the size of the market.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: What.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: When you talk about. When I hear stormwater, I know there's green infrastructure, but I naturally think of these massive culverts and, and big pipes. So what kind of makes up that 360 billion?
[00:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's things like catchment basins. So, you know, when you. You're exactly right, though. You lay a highway or a road, you've got to put in culverts, catchment basins to basically manage that water. Someone said to me at one point, roads are really just for getting water out of the way so you can move things along.
That's one way to look at it. But also for new housing developments, you know, managing stormwater, their stormwater tanks that are having to go underground, you know, when, particularly in a place I know in place like Newton, Massachusetts, if you tear down a house, you're going to have to start. You're going to have to pay a pretty fee for managing the stormwater and put in tanks so you're not overwhelming the stormwater systems and the pipes.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah, interesting stuff. All right, let's move on to.
I think your second issue is Forever Chemicals, broadly not. Not Europe specific. So let's talk about, you know, before we get to the Europe specific part, talk about the Forever Chemicals, how you, how that played out in 24 and what grade you would assign yourself.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: So I would give us an A minus, if not an A, but that's an easy A. That was what I would call a Crip course, because I think at the end of 2023, the EPA in the US at least had already said, hey, we're going to deal with this in Q1. We're going to release the guidelines and what's happening. If, you know, I look back historically, you know, particularly during COVID there was really prior to the Infrastructure Investment Jobs act, that was the real impetus for a lot of this. And so what ended up happening in April is the EPA laid out its guidelines for six PFOS compounds and really set enforceable limits.
Now we can get into sort of what happens going forward in a little bit, maybe. But that's one aspect of it, I think. The other aspect, what's interesting, I think, at least from a Bluefield perspective, is we have clients that are global. We have a team in Spain and Europe and France as well. And what's interesting is Europe is much further behind the U.S.
in addressing this, even from a regulatory point of view. But I think that's going to change pretty quickly as fast as policy and regulations can actually move. Europe is far more attuned to things like that. So I think, yeah, an easy A to A minus.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: Yeah, so there were big. So you hit on PFAs. We also saw the lead and copper rule improvements come out later in the year.
Was that on anyone's radar that it would come out that soon?
[00:13:19] Speaker A: Well, we had seen, we knew particularly the Biden administration was really pushing for that. They, they'd set an October deadline and they sort of notified everyone, the world that this is what's going to happen. What is interesting is that, you know, so they did that in the event of a change, you know, electorally in the White House and, or Congress. So that was part of it and that was sort of within the road map that they had laid out. But I think also what's interesting when you look at these two things is that we still have a long way to go. You know, even mid year Bluefield, what we had done is we took a look at our even drinking water forecast for PFAS specifically and we actually doubled it. And it's not a huge number. Right. We went from 6 to $7 billion to $13 billion by 2030. So everybody gets disappointed that it's not bigger than that. It is bigger than that. I would say those numbers were doubled partly because there were some legal settlements that were happening with the manufacturers. Like 3M had signed a settlement in South Carolina in fact, and paying out utilities for remediation, but also Infrastructure Investment in Jobs Act. And once you had that national guideline as opposed to just say 12 to 14 states enforcing regulations, the market became bigger. Now some have argued that and if you look at some of the financial reports, some of which are our clients, they'll say the market globally is at least 250 billion. It's a question of that's a lot of money and who's going to pay for it.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: Staggering amounts of money you mentioned Europe is far behind and they're more attuned to the water quality issue. So you think they're going to catch up?
What, what forms are they going to use the US regulations as a model? I mean, how are, what, what's your take on Forever Chemicals?
[00:15:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the Europeans, they're going to go after the sources for one. So they're going to go after the company, the manufacturers. But Then as they've done and they're starting to do with things like carbon, I won't be surprised if they start saying no products with PFAS are coming into Europe, so imports are going to be squeezed. So it's going to be a way of controlling supply chains and sort of, you know, you know, it'll be euphic, sort of excluding those products across the continent. A lot of dynamics. The EU is slow moving, but I think that's our general take.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Got it. So let's move on to the next item. And I think that was digital water tech.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: It was, yeah.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: So laid on me. What do we got about digital water tech? Did we advance? Were you on the number?
[00:16:15] Speaker A: I don't think we did. So hot there. And I think that was maybe our own enthusiasm. It's no secret that Bluefield, you know, our team, we like digital technology. We think it drives efficiency. So as far as A grade goes, honestly I would give us a C plus, but either there are market factors related to that that are worth noting. And so it's been a tough year for digital or maybe tough 18 months even. And part of that is M and A driven M and A creates a lot of noise, as we know From, I'd say 2018 to 2022 or so. There was a lot of M and A activity when it came to digital. Companies like Xylem were incredibly aggressive. So I think in the aftermath of that there's been a lot of streamlining or incorporating those new acquisitions into their sort of organizational and operational structure as well as product structure. So that's one aspect of it. The other is interest rates have been incredibly high. So M and A obviously slowed down a bit. I think there are also high valuations.
Digital tech got really big even into Covid, so since then it's kind of slowed down a bit. And I think also one of the challenges is that digital technologies you've got to convince, particularly on the municipal side, you've really got to convince risk averse and reasonably so risk averse utilities to purchase these technologies. And then that opens a Pandora's box of concerns, including everything from cybersecurity to is the company going to still be around to. So it's a tough business overall. That being said, our forecast we put out, I think in Q3, Q4 timeframe this year, you know, it's still the US and Canada market out past 2030, so to 2023, we're expecting the annual spend on digital technologies to grow from about 11 a half billion to 20, almost 24 billion.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So the headwinds are both supply side and demand side.
When do you see the. Let's start with the demand side because that's the side I'm more familiar with. When do you see the tipping point come in for when these risk averse utilities are going to say, okay, this is a vetted technology, it works. I'm willing to spend the money to implement because I think I'm going to get a return on my investment.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think the way we look at it is we do look because one of the challenges is that as we've talked about and as have others, that the municipal market is so highly fragmented. Right. So you do have tier one, very large utilities and not a lot of them. Tier 2, 3 and 4. That's how we look at the market. So what you'll see is the tier ones are actually fairly active even internally. They have their own personnel, their own staffing that are deploying a lot of technologies. They see the benefits. They also have greater access to capital and their safety net in some respects, whether it be personnel wise, but also financially is a little bit greater. And they're understanding as you go down that stack, when you get to tier three and four, they're usually much smaller utilities, they're more remote. It might be rural.
As I've said, I think before, I think AWW came out with a number that said that 85% of utilities in the US employ less than three people, which is kind of amazing. I mean, whether that's a stretch potentially. But I think the point is the staffing has. They have day jobs. Right. And so what I think, you know, they're doing all these different things. So to bring in some new technology and have to worry about it while you sleep at night is, is, is a tall order to ask. So I would say, when is it going to happen? I think we're starting to see it. It's just slower than maybe the tech community wants. And I think that sort of creates a lot of the noise. Right. When you think of technology and digital is obviously that it's starting at the top, it's working its way down. There are a number of companies that are trying to sort of crack the nut of the small utilities and identify, you know, channel strategies to get to them. And that may in fact change with companies. You know, we're seeing even hardware and equipment distributors that are getting more involved in digital. So whether it be a wind supply or a Vesco or a corn main or a Ferguson, they've got closer contact with the customer. I think the end users or demand side, as you put it, they trust them in many respects. So that relationship may help accelerate it as well.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: One of the technologies that's trying to serve the small market, small water utility market, is Subeka and we had them on a few months ago to talk about the Suez investment and that was a major player taking a new approach to invest in kind of a simple technology. Are we going to see more of that type of thing or is that.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Yeah, we're always interested in the strategics doing that and I think that's kind of inherent in the technology. I think a lot of these small startup technology vendors we've tracked, boy, now we have probably 2, 2500, maybe 3000 digital vendors that are active in the water space. And I think 60 to 70% of them have been founded since 2000. There are obvious reasons for that, but I think the strategics, they're the big fish. Right. They're the ones that can roll up these smaller technologies. So we are seeing companies like Suez or Veolia or in some cases maybe even a tremble what they're doing, or Badger Meter is a more recent one that's been really active. What they're doing is they're not necessarily buying big companies. They're basically rounding out their portfolio, product portfolios with these smaller solutions. So small deals, we're seeing a lot of that that just fill a niche or a void within the product portfolios that they have.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Yeah, so the water industry is not just fragmented on the utility side, it's also fragmented on the provider side.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: Oh, I mean, if you put a page together with all the logos, you're going to use a lot better.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: All right, so the fourth item you had on your list was industrial water.
Tell us what happened in 24 in industrial water and how do you, you know, where'd you, where'd you land on the mark for that one?
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think we did pretty well in industrial water. And I think we maybe that was a last minute home run in baseball parlance. And part of that is we just put out, yeah, we just put out a, a U.S. and Canada industrial forecast. I think a week last week, maybe two weeks ago at the most. And so we definitely covered what's happening in industrial water in the US but one of the things we did call out at the beginning of the year were semiconductors and food and beverage. And those are definitely hot markets in the U.S. one, semiconductors because of the Chips Act. Another infrastructure investment policy that we put out over the Past couple years it's laying out tens of billions of dollars to companies like intel, but also TSMC and Samsung. And so there's a lot of investment and that's a big chunk of change that's going to be used up in the water sector. A food and beverage now stepping back at looking at semiconductors. That is going to be a really attractive market, particularly to the whale hunters when it comes to the water industry. The veolias, the xylems of the world. Right. They're highly complex systems. There's not a lot of room for error and companies aren't going to take a risk. So that's where that is. Food and beverage, on the other hand, highly fragmented there it's proving to be a good entry point for technology vendors, the treatment technology vendors to get into the water market because you obviously have big players, the Nestle's, the Coca Colas of the world. But then you have so many, once again, highly fragmented. You have a highly fragmented list of players that actually provide an entry for things like wastewater treatment. And we've seen companies do quite well in that space. Cambrian is one that's come up several times. That's a good example of someone who's dealing with the wastewater. One thing lastly is we didn't deal with data centers, so I can't give myself an A. I would give us a B plus.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Got it. So the data center issue and the chip. The chip issue. I attended the webinar Bluefield research put on data centers and semiconductor manufacturing, which was fascinating.
Where do you think that's going?
Because they use tremendous amounts of water and it just seems to me that there just needs to be much more water efficiency introduced into those industries because they just are not water efficient right now. It just seems.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the things is, I mean it is kind of crazy when you think about semiconductors in my mind and perhaps because I've lived there in a past life. But the hotbed of the semiconductor industry is Phoenix, Arizona, which is obviously dry and water stressed. So what I would say, as far as an opportunity goes, you know, there's going, there's reuse systems being in place and I know things like Samsung in Texas, there's large wastewater treatment and reuse systems being installed that those funds, once they run out, I think it's going to be a big bubble and then it's going to slow down to some extent unless, you know, the current and future administrations decide to put more money to it or they can maybe revive intel, which I'm sure they have Their fingers crossed for the data center piece is really interesting. You know, what we're seeing, I mean that's the segment that is growing the fastest. It's like a meteor. And the demand in places like Loudoun County, Virginia, where obviously they're addressing the government industrial complex in Northern Virginia, a lot of the systems do have reuse in place. What I think is interesting about it is there's a lot of discussion about the supply side, but it's also just the process water along the way for cooling systems. And that's something that companies like Ecolab have been. They're seeing real gains when it comes to their business because what they're doing is they're going in and treating the cooling water through a service which kind of meets their business model itself. They give, you know, relatively or cost effective treatment systems. They install them, put them in place and then they just charge recurring fee to operate and maintain these systems. But they're treating for things like Legionella that people aren't thinking about. Because you get Legionella in your data center, you're going to shut the system down. And that's definitely what Amazon and Google and all the others don't want to deal with. I think the other overlooked aspect that we're going to be digging into, I think in Q1, if we're not already when it comes to the data center market and I just did it, I said Google and Amazon and you can think SAP and Facebook or Meta, they.
They're the ones that sort of get stuck with the sustainability questions. What are you doing? But the reality of it is they lease a significant amount of their space. I was reading some reports just in the past couple of weeks that actually they're leasing as much as 50% and it's growing of their data center space from companies like Digital Realty and Equinix and Cyrus One. So in many respects for those vendors out there targeting the data center market as a potential opportunity, there's a whole list of real estate investment trusts that are the opportunity.
[00:29:05] Speaker B: Interesting stuff.
The water energy nexus rears its head in the data center issue as well. We've seen a lot of nuclear and some, not all nuclear, but some nuclear uses water for cooling. So there's another aspect to all that that I think is going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
[00:29:25] Speaker A: Oh, that's like a super interesting part. We're talking about starting Three Mile Island. You and I are old enough to know what that was like. You know, it'll be interesting to see if Constellation pulls that off. Because they're the ones that own the plant. But then, you know, I know other, these big tech companies, Amazon and such, they are also investing and working with companies for small bioreactors or bioreactors still in water, small nuclear reactor systems. But yeah, it's sort of what I would call a cascading effect across all industries. I mean, there's talks about deferring the decommissioning of coal plants, at least so we can maintain the power demand, because AI is on the rise. And so with all of this stuff, there's water involved one way or another, and it needs to be dealt with.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So let's kind of talk about what you didn't. I, you know, what you didn't talk about that ended up being an issue in 24. What, what kind of was. Was there anything that, that you did not, you know, hit on that turned out to be an issue?
[00:30:38] Speaker A: Well, if there's one elephant in the room at the beginning of the year, which I look back and I'm and am amazed, but I think I understand why we didn't talk about the election. We didn't talk about what the implications were of the presidential or congressional elections. It was only, wasn't. It was only in April, May. And part of it was clients were not asking about it at that point. I think it was in April and May when the questions really started coming to us to say, hey, what do you think is going to happen? And maybe it's. People didn't want to think about it one way, we didn't want to think about it. And I think that's part of the reason. I guess I would give myself an F for not wanting to do so. But no one really wants to talk about it. You and I talked about it a couple months ago. But, you know, I think what is interesting is now that we kind of know what's happening to some extent, you know, the questions are going to be, you know, what's going to happen with the Inflation Reduction Act? What's, what do tariffs mean for the water sector? These are questions. If you, if you asked me, what do you think, what do you think is going to happen? Or what are you looking at in 2025? It's going to be things like that, policies. What's the role of the epa? Has it been defanged by the Supreme Court's ruling on Chevron deference and so on?
[00:32:00] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I look very much forward to seeing Bluefield researches prognostications on 25, because I think next year is going to be a real interesting period for the water sector. Just not just for the reasons you identified but also are there going to be rollbacks?
Is the lead and copper rule improvements going to be rolled back a little bit?
I just think it's going to be very interesting to see how we move forward in the water sector.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I think from a policy perspective that's really where I think, I mean to your point where the action may be happening, where you know, the, you know, what will the administration, what are, what are they thinking about it? Maybe they sit on it for a little while. You know, we've been hearing it for a while when it comes to the MCLs for PFAs, you know, are they going to be rolled back or not? Or maybe they extend timelines because you know. But there's also questions about, we're hearing noise about questioning the science of the, of the studies that got to those numbers and they're stringent, there's no doubt about it. So yeah, I think that is going to be a hot topic. But that being said, you know, those will then be reflected in what's happening in the energy sector. What's the power, what's going to happen to the power sector or I mean, you know, will the electric vehicle incentives disappear and therefore what does that mean for the mining sector and water management? So yeah, it's, we're, we're not quite there yet. This, the tough part about this time of year is we're living in two years at least. We're kind of living for the now and then trying to think ahead. So that'll be coming soon.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, one thing we didn't talk about that fluoride in the waters can be another issue that is for some reason it's everywhere.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: The first date I went on, I was trying to press my wife on our first date. This is what a loser I am that I. She was working actually at the cdc. She was in graduate school and I was trying to impress her. The CDC puts out a morbidity and mortality report. I think it comes out every week. And so I was reading, she was working there. So I was reading morbidity and mortality reports from the CDC to try to understand what she was interested in doing. And the first one was talking about fluoride being the greatest health achieve. One of the greatest health related achievements I think in US history. If not, it was kind of amazing. I'll never forget that. Now here we are talking about getting rid of it and I can't, I can tell you this I suspect that Bluefield Research will not be doing a lot of research on fluoride, but that's just me.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: Very good. Well, Reese, it's been a. The 30 minutes together has gone very quickly, so we got to do this more often rather than last time was at least five years ago, I'd think.
[00:35:11] Speaker A: If not longer, I think so you know, we've done a couple, but I just know now that I know July 2016 was the first one. We've talked a lot. We talk every month. Yeah. Not long thereafter since then. So it's good to keep it going.
[00:35:25] Speaker B: Amen. Well, Reese, have a great holiday and I look forward to talking with you much, much more into the new Year. So thanks so much and have a great 2025.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: You too. Happy Holidays. Talk soon.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: It's always a good day when I get to speak with Reese Tisdale. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Reese, and for being a good friend. Well, I'd love to know what you thought about this interview. Please check out the Show Notes page for information and links on the episode. Just Google the Water Values Podcast. Click the first link that comes up. That's our landing page at the Bluefield Research website. Again, Bluefield Research and the Water Values LLC are not affiliates. We just have a joint marketing arrangement. As part of that, we get a home on the web at Bluefield Research's site. Well, you can email me at david.mcgimpseyentons.com and you can sign up for the newsletter at that landing page as well.
Thank you again for tuning in and I hope you make it a great day and I hope you've had a great year. Plus, I want to give a huge thank you to our sponsors for 2024, and all of our sponsors are coming back for 2025.
Again, sponsors of the Water Values Podcast include Advanced Drainage Systems, 1898 and Company, Woodard and Curran, Interra Xylem, the American Waterworks Association, Black and veatch, and 120 water. And this show would not be possible without those great companies and industry leaders. And again, thank you for listening and for subscribing to the Water Values Podcast. Your support is truly appreciated and as stated at the top of the show, happy holidays to you all and have yourself a fantastic new year. In closing, please remember to keep the core message of the Water Values Podcast in mind as you go about your daily business. Water is our most valuable resource, so please join me by going out into the world and acting like it.
You've been listening to the Water Values Podcast. Thank you for spending some of your day with my dad and me. Well, thank you for tuning in to the disclaimer. I'm a lawyer licensed in Indiana and Colorado, and nothing in this podcast should be taken as providing legal advice or as establishing an attorney client relationship with you or with anyone else. Additionally, nothing in this podcast should be considered a solicitation for professional employment. I'm just a lawyer that finds water issues interesting and that believes greater public education is needed about water issues. And that includes enhancing my own education about water issues because no one knows everything about water.
